Why is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not arguing the fact Faith is necessary.

He asked a specific question, and I gave one reason, that I have heard, why folks have trouble with taking the Bible literally. Something that has been altered over thousands of years cannot be taken literally in my opinion. It's open to interpretation and many folks have issues with that (taking faith in something that they think may or may not actually be the word of God). </div></div>

You are right, many do have issues with that. Is it because they chhose not to change the way they live and justify it? Is it because they have a hard time not being able to believe in something that they cannot see? Because to say everything has been changed, so therefor I will not read it nor apply it is inconceivable to me. How about you? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif[/img]

[imported_elp6n]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the difference in my opinion would be quite signifigant</div></div>
I agree with that statement. The Bible has been translated and altered numerous times, and there's no record of all the changes made. Is the gist of it the same? Perhaps so. Are specific stories, books the same? Likely not.

I take a quick look at bn.com and see over 20 different versions of the Bible for sale. If those 20 versions were taken and translated into another language/version another 20 times, and those taken and translated again another 20 times, there's 8000 new versions.

[R0cketer]

That was my general point way back when this was discussed previously.

Focus on the big issue, Jesus being the son of God, believe on him, etc.

Don't focus on well why did Jesus hang around a prostitute, why did he drink wine, etc.

Worrying about the small things is, in my opinion, why the church is so fractured. That is what splits the Christians, worrying about things that don't matter.

Did the Bible, in its original text say wine, did it say grape juice, was there really a word to translate it as anything but wine, did another language have a word for it, etc.

Honestly, I feel like one of the biggest things that is going to cause a lot of good Christians not to go to Heaven, is the fact that they are more worried about if someone should be allowed to wear makeup or not, or any other example you want to find.

A persons relationship with Christ, and them doing what they feel and are lead by their studies is what is going to be judged, not rather they followed through with what you thought.

[R0cketer]

Just a little addendum of what I mean

I took Spanish in high school and college. There was several phrases/words that we use daily, that didn't directly translate to Spanish, so you find something almost the same. Now translate the 'almost the same' word into another language and you get something that may be 30% different than what you started out as.

One thing I always heard mentioned was, we have the story of Jesus being born, we have him teaching, we have him in the wilderness and then into ministry. Where was the rest of his years? If he's the son of God why did his 'teens' not matter? Did he suddenly do nothing, did he go throw rocks at donkeys then? When you have incompletions, you have people asking about what happened.

Now you can think that something is right, something is wrong, because you read something or you read it and got something out of what you read. Obviously since there are so many study Bibles, with different opinions/views, its impossible to have a '100% set' view of what things are. If that was the case, you wouldn't have religious leaders who talk about 'getting something new' out of a particular verse.

Simple one for you, burning bush, burning shrub, burning tree....what was it? Now you can say its one or another, and maybe it doesn't matter, but how many other things are there that are like that.

[imported_elp6n]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I took Spanish in high school and college. There was several phrases/words that we use daily, that didn't directly translate to Spanish, so you find something almost the same. Now translate the 'almost the same' word into another language and you get something that may be 30% different than what you started out as.</div></div>
A HAH! That's it!

For those curious, try out babelfish.altavista.com
translate a few phrases into one language, and translate the result back into English and see what you get.


"Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer had a very shiny nose" translates into "Rudolph das rote gerochene Ren hatte eine sehr glänzende Nase" in German, and translates back into English as "Rudolph the red smelled Ren had a very much shining nose"
[img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I took Spanish in high school and college. There was several phrases/words that we use daily, that didn't directly translate to Spanish, so you find something almost the same. Now translate the 'almost the same' word into another language and you get something that may be 30% different than what you started out as.</div></div>
A HAH! That's it!

For those curious, try out babelfish.altavista.com
translate a few phrases into one language, and translate the result back into English and see what you get.


"Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer had a very shiny nose" translates into "Rudolph das rote gerochene Ren hatte eine sehr glänzende Nase" in German, and translates back into English as "Rudolph the red smelled Ren had a very much shining nose"
[img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]
</div></div>


Here is the big shocker........ God does not have a language like we use.... He speaks and every tongue will understand.

[imported_elp6n]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is the big shocker........ God does not have a language like we use.... He speaks and every tongue will understand. </div></div>

Since when were we talking about what language God speaks? I dont think there's any doubt to that. That's not even at issue.

We're talking about the Bible and what WE earthly mortals understand. We are the ones translating this Bible hundreds - thousands of times over in hundreds of versions (if not more). Editing books, adding books, deleting books.

He can speak all and understand all, but we cannot.
Remember the Tower of Babel?
Genesis 11:6-7 as follows:

6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.


And here are 10 more versions of Genesis 11:6
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NASB: The LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. (NASB ©1995)
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GWT: The LORD said, "They are one people with one language. This is only the beginning of what they will do! Now nothing they plan to do will be too difficult for them. (GOD'S WORD®)
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KJV: And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
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ASV: And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do: and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do.
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BBE: And the Lord said, See, they are all one people and have all one language; and this is only the start of what they may do: and now it will not be possible to keep them from any purpose of theirs.
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DBY: And Jehovah said, Behold, the people is one, and have all one language; and this have they begun to do. And now will they be hindered in nothing that they meditate doing.
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JPS: And the LORD said: 'Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do; and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do.
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WBS: And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
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WEB: Yahweh said, "Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is what they begin to do. Now nothing will be withheld from them, which they intend to do.
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YLT: and Jehovah saith, 'Lo, the people is one, and one pronunciation is to them all, and this it hath dreamed of doing; and now, nothing is restrained from them of that which they have purposed to do.</div></div>
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I'll use this as an example as to why people don't like to respond to your posts. You're condescending. Here's the big shocker - you're sarcastic. That post was an attempt at trying to shoot down my argument, but the only thing you could come up with was off target.

[jtw61194]

I think when you talk about reliability, you also need to realize how people communicated several thousand years ago. News, history, and culture was passed along through the spoken word more so than the written word. Remember that only the privelaged were educated. So, for centuries, there may have only been a few written copies of biblical texts. Throw in the language barriers and translations, as well as the changing ebbs and flows of the world, as a whole, and I'm convinced that what was said and written then is not the same as it is now. I will also go on record to say that it is way too easy to hide behind scripture as a means of justifying something. I used the Westboro Baptist Church as my previous example. Those folks justify all their hatred and venom as coming from the same book you all constantly harp on everybody reading. Televangelists are constantly coming up with passages on why we should send them money. As sinning human beings, we are all capable of twisting the words to make them say what we want. I seriously doubt that one author actually sat down and wrote the Bible in one sitting. As with any piece of work, even forum posts, one's own opinion can be included into stories and passages. Faith, to me, is the most important aspect of religion and spirituality. I think you find faith more in living than in reading. I've spoken my peace. Fire away preachers! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]

[imported_ut1]

39 authors have been credited with the writing of the scriptures. From beginning to end, its all about Christ. I take the Bible to be a true and accurate account, and as I've mentioned in other posts: God doesn't need man to preserve His Word. 99% of modern theologians agree that the "modern" translations are accurate translations. I have a Bible printed in Oxford, England that dates back to 1896 that is exactly like my 2005 version, word for word.
So what some of you are basically saying is that it is not credible due to the time factor, poor education, word of mouth, phrases of the day, etc. Then, by using that logic, we shouldn't believe any of our history books either. After all, they were written by fallible men.

[jtw61194]

Very true, but history books have changed throughout time, also. I would never doubt the true number of authors who wrote the Bible, for that is not my point. My point is that the Bible, as we know it, has to have changed throughout history, in due part to some of the examples I gave. Remember that books and newspapers weren't massed produced until somebody invented the printing press. And I dare say that illiteracy was pretty high and those that could read had to spread the words in the Bible by preaching. I'm no historian, but I have enough common historical sense to know that for generations, knowledge was passed on by word of mouth. I'm sure that all the teachings and scriptures in the Bible were probably, and I say probably because I am making an educated guess rather than stating a documented fact, written down after they had been passed on verbally for quite some time.